Golden Communication

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0:44 Denzel Washington, Welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to do the same. Gotcha, Welcome to the show. Hi, so share with the Adia where you're coming from. I'm German born and raised. I studied in Germany and Austria. I lived in Ireland, Switzerland, Canada, in Germany again and now I'm living in the Netherlands. Wow, it makes me a true European. True European. That's great.

1:26 And tell me a little bit about yourself and you know your background because you've you've. Moved into it entirely. Well, what I find is a fascinating approach to helping people, businesses as well as individuals, talking about communications so forth. What brought this all about? To be honest, it has been that way all my life. I'm a person who had called it an early calling. This is what I've been doing all my life, and I just turned it into a business later on. I seemed already as a child, have seemed to have a tendency or an ability to help people's words. Let me put it like that, and to make sure that they find the right word in the right moment, and then I'll be at their site when they need to do it.

2:29 So and this is basically in the core of what I do. If you are going on stage and you have to give a presentation, or you're speaking at a conference, or you're just took over a position, a new position and you're working with a new team and have to win your team over, or you want to you need to restructure your client services in your company, and sometimes it's you given it to a media interview. You have some. Words for the press that are hopefully the right ones. Now, this is what I'm doing, and I do that in three languages, in German and English and in Dutch. And I do that mostly on the industry side and less so on the political side, to be honest, because I think in doing business business communication still has a different approach than political communication. And I'll do that form basically twenty years now.

3:30 Wow, and let's talk about personal communication, because you know what we see going on right now in the world, I think has everything to do with communication, whether you want to talk about it political or business or otherwise. Communication is the key. And how many people are finding that communication is not working out for them in their personal lives. Every communication arts with that. This is the This is the nucleus AI back and forth. All the nice idea that the words are written or spoken from human to human has a very miraculous resonance. Words can kill and words can revive. So the nucleus, the core of our relationships is how we express it by words. Yeah, what we need to start.

4:42 You know what I find interesting is, as I've talked to some others, one. Of the things we talked about with communication is there's really three ways in which we communicate. There's the words, whis interesting. Some studies show that it's not the hugest part of communication. And then you have the body language, and then you have the tonality. Yeah, so as we start focusing on words, how does that relate and how does that relate to the tonality and the body language and so forth? There are you kind of including those other two within the words themselves. Yeah, do you have to because exactly what you say, your mouse can lie with the words you speak. Your body can't. Your body has already spoken before you, before you even also the first word. It's unbelievable how how big the influence of body language is. And when there is there is something something else what we call para verbal communication, like you utter as a confirmation, a vocal one or an oh, be called that paraverbal which goes.

6:03 It's a makes out of you know, body language and tonality. So you already without saying anything, you are with the other person kind of you build up what we call a conversational intelligence. You build a resonance, and you need to be aware of your or you need to be in sync. Let me put it like that, that's the best thing. You need to be in sync with your body, because your body will always lead right about tonality and words and tonality here, I'm a little bit mixed in my experience with my clients. There is some of them not that great tonality, but great words and the other way around. So I'm a little bit mixed here about I'm pretty sure that your body language is leading unconsciously, subconsciously the way to towards the hearts of other people. Absolutely, yes.

7:04 And you know, it's interesting you talk about intelligence from the standpoint of conversation. I mean, we've got emotional intelligence, we have just general IQ intelligence and so forth. Now you're talking about conversational intelligence. Can you explain to the audience. What that is. It's basically a three part a three P suit, right. It starts part of that intelligence is resonance. So how do you build contact with the other person or the group you were talking to? The things like how do you make sure that they're that you in sending something opening a back channel so that the other person wants to talk back to you, because you know there understanding is not our problem. We understand each other pretty well.

8:03 We just very often do not have any intention to follow what is beIN said. So you're by building resonance, by making a connection to the other person. That is the first step. The second step to conversational intelligence is built by relevance, especially in times like these where it looks like that everything is either either fake news or a lie, or not true or not proven. All these things. Relevance meaning the right word in the right situation towards the right group. And once you add resonance and relevance, you might you might end up with congruency towards So there was a certain a certain wave of vipe between you and the udiens that has to do as well with emotional parts and with the facts and figures parts.

9:08 So in the mix out of these two probably helps. If you only build up a resonance and emotional connection without relevance, you might be seen as a nice person on stage, but without having a foot in reality. If you are only irrelevant but not resonant, you might be right, but no one will listen. So you better start with the resonant part on top developments and you might end up with conversational intelligence. Okay, so really, and then between individuals, and that's where I really want to focus is between individuals. You know, I've looked at it from different perspectives. I took a course in communication and they talked about the very same thing, as far as you know, affinity In other words, how do you feel about.

10:01 The person and so forth? And then do you have something common that you can talk about that reality type of thing. And then obviously the way that you communicate are you willing to communicate? And again, now we get into the words that we use, and let's talk about that. A little bit. What are the effect of words? We know that body language has a huge amount sometimes tonality can to but what are the words and how do words affect our communication? And how do they affect the other person in a way that they either are truly understanding or they're getting triggered and all of a sudden they're not really hearing what you're saying because they've got so much stuff going on in their mind.

10:44 Here's a couple of things you were mentioning already that play an important role. Here trigger is one thing, and the other one we have something in common. Now there's a communication phrase for that, temarema. So you're always interpersonal. You start with something both communication partners know when we let's let's take a very simple sentence, it has been raining in Utah today. Then Utah is the thing that both of us know. Okay, this is the common the common denominator we have. But the news will be, oh, it has been raining in Utah. So these two things together building coming ground. Oh yeah, Utah. Oh you know where Utah is, you live there, I know where Yoda is.

11:46 I want to go there. Okay, And there has been a certain weather condition today. That's the news. So our sentences, our words are should should be built on both of them. If you speak to a person only in things that person does not know or cannot relate to you, will you will end up with zero understanding and even less emotional understanding. Right. If you just build common ground on the things you know, but do not add something new to it, you'll be perceived as probably boring. None of these makes you a good communicator inter personally. Right, So this makes us.

12:34 Interesting, okay. And so here here's where the reality comes in. You know, you said, Okay, it's raining in Utah. I'm looking outside and it's going No, it's not. It's sunny, it's beautiful. And yet I guarantee you somewhere in Utah's raining? Right? So how how you. Add words in a way that you do not nullify someone's perception of the immediate a situation going on, and yet at the same time can say, you know what, it's raining somewhere in Utah. In making sure that the way you you talk about the circumstances for the betther right, let's let's take let's take the weather. Uh, it's the best. The best thing you could do is always turning turning a sentence into a question, when has it been raining in your area for the last time? And all of a sudden you build an absolutely different report because now I'm giving you the opportunity to talk about your personal experience, add it with your reality and inform me on something. Now, this is this is priceless in communication. So turning something usual sentence into a question that is an opening one. So

14:04 a question that not cannot be and it cannot be answered easily to thees or no. That is a very very huge step forward in interpersonal communication. And it will be one of my tips and my advice is to if you're in doubt, ask a question. Well, yeah, and I think that's so important. I you know, as I mentioned to you. I've been in Thailand for a number of months. I just got back, and I don't speak Thai, so you can imagine the communication that goes on. So use Google Translate a lot, right, And you probably have never had to because you speak all these languages. But what I find, even with Google Translate, sometimes someone will say something in Google Translate.

14:49 They let me read it, and I look at it and I'm going, this makes no sense at all. And originally, originally, when I first started going to age, I would do that, and I would I would get offended, or you know, I would it was just like. What are you trying to say? And I finally learned that when I look at something and I'm not sure that you know that's what you really mean, I'll go back and say, in fact, I make this agreement with people. I said, you know what, if I don't understand, I'm going to ask you, could you re explain that to me? And sometimes when they do that, and as you say, is I ask a question, all of a sudden, it's an entirely different.

15:29 Meaning than what originally I saw. And I wonder how many times when we're speaking our own common language, where someone might say something to us, and we perceive it as something rather than. Questioning it. You know, can you help me understand a little bit more about what you really mean. I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're saying. And the point you're making that this is especially important when you were speaking with you, the person you would talk to when you're speaking the same language. Indeed, in misunderstandings are very often way bigger and you're your Thailand example kind of sheds light on that. Are you thinking like, yeah, yeah, yeah, he is speaking English, I speak English. He will understand me, or she will she will know what I mean.

16:21 Uh. Very often we don't, or we all we put our own interpretation on that, right, And then in the end we are totally surprised that the person is doing something completely unexpected for us, and he's like, why are you doing that? Yeah, but this is what you told me. No I did not. Oh yes you did. No I did not. So there we are in this in this spiral, right and asking, especially when you when you're in in a in a in a different in a different country and speaking a foreign language or not exactly what you did. Going back adding another language loop a feedback round. Could you explain that to me in different words? That is the absolute door open I always, I always. It's nearly as saying I love you to someone else, because first of all, you ask, which means, oh, someone needs me.

17:16 This is good, someone oh wants my expertise, Mmmm, this is brilliant. I am asked to do something. Oh. And we're always, most of the time is willing to help anyway. So a good question faced in the right way is such an emotional door opener. That's unbelievable. And we should use it more open and more often, and especially too and with people in conversations. We truly careful and we love. But how often is it exactly the people we love most that we treat the worst? In this particular it's because we think any idea I mean els what I mean, I don't need this particular special ground people know and dan we are.

18:06 Disappointed when Haaby doesn't know or Lovely comes back with something wrong, and the disappointment is huge. Well, and you. Talk about words, I mean, you think about all of these imprints that have been placed in our lives from childhood, all right, and even going beyond that, you think about the DNA memory and the epigenetics and all of that that can come out at some point in time. You talk about words and how does how does someone make sure that they use words that are not triggering someone else.

18:47 I mean, I may say something to me a word, you know, my perception of a particular word or phrase that I'm saying is just you know, doesn't mean anything other than this is just what I'm trying to say. Someone else listen to those words of that phrase and go, they're attacking me, or they're they're insulting me or whatever. So how do we develop that communication intelligence to understand what type of words we need to use or the way that we phrase them in a way that it's not challenging to the other person and starts somewhat of a confrontation rather than a communication communication. Yeah, the first thing is to really to accept that we only can reduce the amount of misunderstandings. And this is this is brilliant if we can do that, right, our wish to be completely understood by someone else is to my in my personal opinion, already a misconception. Okay, yes, okay.

19:49 All we can do is to reduce the amount of misunderstandings because when we when we think like that, when we feel like that, we are staying way more open for oh, yeah, I know, I know there will be a moment of misunderstanding. So this is for me the first step, except that that there will there won't be complete and I come an understanding. Then the second one is whatever word you use, especially with people you do not know, or that when you have an idea that could could might trigger something, explain context, give context to the meaning of that word. Let me let me make you a very very easy example. When you and I, in our particular case, we might mean the same thing.

20:46 When you and I define happy the word happy, right, the emotion of happiness, we are talking about a different emotion then, for instance, people from Eastern community more more collective cultures. Right in the Eastern cultures, this this happiness is more connected to serenity inner peace, while in Western cultures and yeah, happy and you know, excited and alive, and this is our connotation that happy. So knowing that there are different connotations, accepting that there was, of course there will be misunderstanding and give context. So in I would let's say, I would say yeah, i'm i'm I'm I'm a very happy person today because it makes me happy that I could, I could fulfill I could make this this client happy today. So and that makes me very feel very alive. So give content text to my understanding of happiness or yours. That is the third step I would I would take because the chance did you say a word and it opens all doors independent from the contract you're in? Pooh, I think it is even

22:19 too much fast. Well, and that that takes some consciousness, some intent and a willingness. And I love what you're saying is so a willingness to understand that as we use a word, that we need to explain the context of that word so that the other person doesn't misunderstand. And you know you talk about contrasts versus conflict. Now right now, we are seeing so much conflict. Going on in the world. Okay, how how do you define and how do we differentiate between conflict and contrast? And emotionally, what does that do to us if we're focusing on contrast rather than conflict.

23:03 One is opening doors, one is closing doors. Conflict is closing doors. But if you look at something that is different from a perspective in the best sense, like a yourst we go, we go. You go to Thailand, not because you are on conflicte. You go there to look, and you do not expect everything to be there like it is in Utah. You go there and oh, that is different from what I know in wonder in astonishment, and this is contrast. You accept the other, whatever the other is, as a different projection from what you are used to, but without saying, oh this is worse or better than what I have. It is different. Contrast is just it has a different color, and my color is wonderful, and what I see there is wonderful too. So it's this as well as instead of either or this is this is what it comes down to. We when you when you communicate about contrast instead of conflict, it is as well as oh this is wonderful, and what I have is wonderful too. And if you put together all these wonders and one of wonderfulness, I don't know. If

24:33 that worn't exist, then I think we are getting we are getting forward well. And you know, when it comes to my mind, it's just slightly different phrase because so many times as I'm. Working with people, are talking to people and they say, well, I've got to do this or I've got to do that. And it's like, well, wait a minute, since when is it either or when it could be both? And and you know, and that becomes the key is is understanding that the perception of people is so different your perception, my perception can be so different on certain areas, you know, And yet for me to go into conflict with you and say, well, why you're wrong ra blah blah blah blah blah versus Okay, I understand that this is your perception, not mine, so we can agree to disagree. But you know, there's a point here that I think so many people have a challenge. And I think the challenge is this concept of we need to be right, you know, and and and I think that's aid universally accepted concept is we need to be right, and yet how do we how do we overcome that need so that as you and I are talking and you have, you know, maybe opposite opposite point of.

25:50 View that I do. And yet we want to remain friends, when we want to stay in communication, we want to be able to understand each other, how. Do we get rid of I need to be right and develop. That sense of being willing to not judge, understand that this is your perception and be okay with that. I mean, first of all, this is the question you're asking, is the one billion dollar question, right, And it's the it's a long, long, long, long journey. A couple of things I came across. I'm happy to chat with you. One of the things I found helpful is that people talk about the light and the shadow. I'm going I'm going to.

26:47 I'm going to Utah next month and I'm not going to Nevada, explaining, Okay, when you say yes to this, you automatically say no to a couple of other things. Now say that, give people context, So don't think people are stupid. He said, I'm doing this. I'm going to study this and I'm not going to study that. Explain your decision, Explain the shadow side of it. Explain what you're not going to do. That already helps so to overcome so many disappointments. Right, So, and it's a first step in not wanting to be right, because all of a sudden you see, oh yeah, there is this option the person takes, and there is a million other option the person cannot take.

27:50 Because we all know you cannot do everything right. So that is a very easy step to get an understanding of me. Don't need to be right. Then in the second one, it's a little bit more philosophical than communicational. I think in many parts of the world, not in all of them, we can and we are able to put all these things next to each other and they will end up as something beautiful. So whenever we say either or, history has proven that it diminishes what we have, it doesn't make us richer, not in terms of money, but in terms of in terms of experience, contact, ideas, all that. So and I think this is what we need to learn that there is a good intellectual and emotional profit. It's profitable emotionally. When we say either or, we are not want to be right right, But if we accept that there is a million of truth in the world. Right, So knowing that it could be profitable, it doesn't it doesn't take anything away from us. It adds.

29:14 It's it's nurturing. It makes it us richer. So that is that is that entirely other little stuff I would I would take and and for the rest the third thing actually, and it might be universal tip. Sometimes it's an absolute good idea just to say nothing just to keep your mouth shut. There is a time to talk, and very often there is a time not to talk. And I think we are as human beings, we are very often not very smart in separating this from that.

29:58 Okay, Yeah, the main things you say on your website talking is gold in silence is the beginning of all troubles. So he explain how you fit that into Sometimes it's best. Not to talk because actually silence silence is there's two different ways of silence. Silent is you can be silent not saying anything, but that being being silent forever. It doesn't help, of course, right of course talking should be our natural, natural way of doing things, but it doesn't mean that you have to talk your way through life.

30:41 The pause the pause is a very good idea. Sometimes just push the pause button, don't say anything, helps a lot. Okay, So, with all the conflict that's going on in the world, how would you sit down with two sides of the conflict and help them to work through with communication, to start to minimize some of this conflict that's going on and help them understand it's just contrast. Yeah, yeah, by in in in this particular case, very clearly by going back to the humans, of of everybody's humans, because that is the only thing that, especially as confrontational as many many conflicts at the moment are, that is the thing I would I would go down to to the humanist of the situation, survival, food, the right, the right to survive, the right to live. And there's a second one that I have no solution to. To be honest, I've i slowly but surely, I think we need to take out religion out of our conflicts the moment we

32:12 accept that there's a God for everybody and it's fine for everybody. That probably would help us, but religion presy very often that to conflict and not her contrast. Well, you know, and it's interesting because I think you get into this concept if I'm right and you're wrong type of things. I've been in Thailand. I've found that one of the things I've enjoyed researching and studying is the various religions, whether it's Islam or Buddhism, or Hinduism, obviously, Christianity, Judaism, all of those, and as I've researched them out pretty deeply, what I found is that there's a commonality between all of them. In fact, I've written a little bit down have published it, but just the commonality between all of them, and it's it's fascinating to me that if we were to look at the commonality versus the difference, what what.

33:13 That would do in the world would open It would open a lot of doors. It would open it would open a lot of dialogue, it would open room room for for oh, look what I have all beautiful, Look what what you have? That? And and that would be helpful. Although honestly, the human aspect and and and the huge conflicts at the at the world at the moment are even more important because we are we we have we have come solow that maybe maybe in Gaza, or maybe in Sudan or in Yemen, where where there was an absolutely struggle for survival that people lived there. So we need to even go deeper to the more basic levels and bring people that start there back to life, to go to the U n SDGs. The second one is and hunger, right, and it looks at the moment we are further away from that very very human, very basic thing because we are not even able to feed all the people on the planet. So again, in many of these conflict in these conflict areas. This, as bad as that sounds, is even more important than sitting with the conflict parties.

34:38 So let's talk about getting back to the personal relationships. Now, you know you talk about you talk about those basic needs when when we're in a family situation where we're communicating with our children with their spouse whatever you know, SI, bif another, and there's all sorts of conflict going on. Yeah, what in your mind are. The basics that we need to go back to in those human relationships rather than world relationships, in the human ones, What are those basics that we need to go back to that will help us to create that foundation of healthy communication.

35:19 To give the person you talk to, your daughter or your uncle or mom or dad doesn't matter in as often as you can communicate back how you feel in your heart about that person and communicate how at this particular moment where you're probably angry. That is a momentary thing, right, But still the basis of love and understanding of harmony of connectedness is there. I always call it the vose colored bubble of love, or sometimes it's love, sometimes it's harmony, depending how your family is structuring. But going back to these to these values and then communicate that what you experience at the moment, did the emotion, the anger or whatever that is, that this is a momentarily feeling that does not take away the basis that you have with that family member, because family is the longest it's the longest relation we.

36:35 Have, right right, And you know, I love I love what you're talking about as far as take responsibility for those emotions. You know, I've heard it said before, and sometimes you can get in trouble saying this. And doing this, but it's like I've heard this. You know, if if a conflict is coming up, what what emotion. Did? What emotion came up? For you? Angry at me? What did I do to trigger an emotion? But what's the emotion? And when we take responsibility and or able to say, you know, what you just said really caused me some upsetness, but I recognize that I've got some triggers there that I don't understand.

37:16 Can you explain a little bit further about what you really mean? We are again that question, right, yes, yes, And once that happens, all of a sudden, you may find that that's not what they mean. Yeah, and it's it's at the moment you asked back a question, or if what you said creates upsetness or made me angry or made me confused, you you recognize consciously that you are a part of that, because it's you recognize at the moment, okay, it's it's both of us. You said something that has an impact on me, right, but it's it's both of us.

37:58 It's not you, or it's we are in this together. And indeed, when you when you, when you express okay, what you just said makes me angry or confused, can you explain a little bit more about that? All of a sudden, it's the person probably goes, oh my god, no, I know, I'm sorry. I didn't want to make you angry. I just meant. And already you're you're too not just down, and you're again close to smoking smoking a peace pipe. You know, you're already back on track mostly And and and this is what I especially in families, if you're not speaking up, and this is exactly what I mean by silence, is the beginning of our troubles. Then this builds up, and then the anger turns into frustration and to other things, other emotions that are kind of piling up, and all of a sudden you see your uncle or whomever, you speak to your father after two weeks, and all of a sudden you burst into anger and your father will say, excuse me, where it just happened? While it's actually just piled up, Yeah, pile of emotions. You have to if you would have spoken earlier, if you would call him, would have called him and say, ada, where you just said, you know, created upsetness? Could you explain

39:31 all of a sudden it bends down and it's not that not a bad anymore. And that's Yeah. You talk about two things that I I'd love to understand. You talk the power of wow wow and then also aha aha in conversations, can you can you briefly kind of go over what you mean by that. It's a little bit the emotional and the what I what I said in the beginning, the the facts and the and the the emotions in the beginning in every conversation. Uh, these two parts, if you consciously, Papa for a conversation, should be should be there.

40:14 Uh. The wow is something, Oh, this is what you just said is beautiful or amazing, or it makes me a better person, or it does something to me emotionally, and the aha is oh I learned something. Oh this is new to me. Oh, thank you for giving me that information. The mix of these two is, in the end what makes us listen to people more interested, right, because when we are interesting and when we are interested, we are getting this back. Be interested and you'll be interesting. And the wow is oh, yeah, oh I didn't know that, and the AHAs all all that you explained it to me, yeah.

41:05 Or could you explain more? You know? And I think that that's the key. So you know, how how do people develop these levels of the conversational intelligence? How how are you going. To if I've never really been taught that, how are you going to teach me these aspects so that I can be a better conversationalist and have less conflict and more understanding? Starting starting always with you teaching you being more conscious about your own words. By beginning is listening to yourself. What are the words you are using, what a suitonality you are using? How do you speak? And the I'm going a little bit deeper into why why do you think that word isn't particular? Is a particular strong word?

42:04 Or why you're using more bad word? You know very often, for instance, people use filling filling words. I think maybe maybe it's one of these filling words, right, No, I'm not one hundred percent sure. I'm putting a little bit maybe m h. When when someone uses this this, I'm using this just as an example. Frequently all the time, there is a there was a story behind that. Is it insecurity or is it that you want open to one you want to open the doors for the other person, So I don't want to judge you, right, So, and then once you've been conscious about that, then we look at the outside world where if you if you listen just two speeches to the news, to you know, to people around you, in in the car or in the subway, at the gas station, wherever you are, what are the conversations you you like, you're drown to. So we start building your own feedback towards Oh yeah, I like and when he speaks, I'm listening when he speaks, I don't, Aha, why is that not? Then we come back to tonalogy, a choice of words, the sometimes body language on a subconscious level, and then we build your portfolio, right and

43:39 from there, from there we go into the interaction with the people. That's so time has gone by fast. Yeah. So number one, if you were to just and you said so many really good things, If you were to put together some short message you want to share with the audience regarding communication, what would that be? Start with a question? Listen to yourself, how do you speak? And why do you do that? Whom do you listen to with an open heart and an open mind? And why do you listen to that person more interested or interesting than to other people? Take notes? Take note, write it down. Why isn't that person I'm drawn to in their communication open? Be as open as possible. Build in feedback globes, ask for context, ask for explanation, and make sure that what you said could be explained as well, so that again we can with you the misunderstandings. You will probably never get rid of them completely.

45:06 But that's yeah, that's wonderful. So what is it? I know your main focus is working with businesses, right, Do you work with individuals at all? Yeah? No, In every business, businesses are built from individuals, right. I mean it's the it's the human beings, it's the people who make a business. Right, So how do people find you? Of course I'm the classical of that and linked In person right, and my name is pretty uncommon, katyas Daja, So my website is katyas Daja dot com and there was only two two people with my name on LinkedIn, so I'm easy to find there as well. I'm media coaching on Twitter. Who wants to Oh, it's it's excellent.

45:53 I'm sorry, who wants to find me there? And yes, I'm on Insta and I'm on TikTok but not so active actually. Okay, And with those other sites, are you mainly just talking about this or are you offering one to one consultations or how does that work? Yeah? Yeah, that's very simple. It's it's it's you, you know. You write an email to me, or you could even call me. Very simple. You dial a number, imagine, and I'll pick up the phone and say hello, does scotcha who's there? Yeah, it's easy, and let me talk and then indeed you can have a one am consultation. Yeah, how wonderful, wonderful, Thank you so much.

46:34 I think this is such an important conversation that nobody really thinks about, and yet it's the communication that makes the difference in this world between peace and conflict, and that's too bad. But anyway, thanks so much for being on this show. Really appreciate it. Thank you very much for having me think Dan. You've bet folks, thanks for listening, have a wonderful week and hopefully we'll all improve our conversation a bit. This is doctor Doug Sane. Now Mistay